UPDATE: Also see Debunking MRAs’ debunking of the list on this entry.
***
I said I would not post any entries during the holidays, but this was too good to pass up. In response to my entry against “Men’s Rights Advocates,” some dickhead calling himself “Rajesh Kumar” tried to post a comment (which I flagged as spam, because that is what it is) giving a list of statistics as to why women actually have the power in our society. This list is popular in MRA circles. Almost none of the statistics have relevance to economic or social power. But still, I thought it might be worth debunking this shit for the sake of people searching for the truth.
Rubbish. Here are the facts:
A charming introduction from our dickhead. As we go on, remember that he called this list of nonsense “facts.”
1. SUICIDE: Men’s suicide rate is 4.6 times higher than that of women’s. [Dept. Health & Human Services — 26,710 males vs 5,700 females]
Correct.
2. LIFE EXPECTANCY: Men’s life expectancy is seven (7) years shorter than women’s [National Center for Health Statistics — males 72.3 yrs vs females 79 yrs] yet receive only 35% of government expenditures for health care and medical costs.
Correct, but irrelevant. The actual differential is 5 years, not 7, but anyway, women have had higher life expectancy at least since the early 1900s, so how the fuck can feminism possibly be to blame??
3. WAR: Men are almost exclusively the only victims of war [Dept. Defense — Vietnam Casualties 47,369 men vs 74 women]
Made up. I hope I don’t have to point out how bizarre this “statistic” is. The rape and murder of Vietnamese women and children was a routine action by the US Army. Look up the My Lai massacre if you have to… but seriously, how can you be so ignorant about history?
4. WORKPLACE FATALITIES: Men account for more than 95% of all workplace fatalities.
Slightly exaggerated, and misleading. The correct percentage is 93%, not “more than 95%.” It is also misleading because it actually reflects sexism- the fact that men monopolize certain more dangerous professions such as aircraft pilots, flight engineers, and fishers.
5. MURDER: Men are murdered at a rate almost 5 times that of women. [Dept. Health & Human Services — 26,710 men vs 5,700 women]
Irrelevant and misleading. Men’s murder rate is that much higher because men are mostly killed by other men. Men are the ones committing the homicides, not women.
6. CHILD CUSTODY: Women receive physical custody of 92% of all children of separation, and men only 4%. [Department of Health & Human Services]
Absolutely false. Women receive custody in 72% of cases, in the UK 71%. And that horrifies me: why are so many men still getting custody of children?? I hope one day we’ll get down to 4%!
7. JURY BIAS: Women are acquitted of spousal murder at a rate 9 times that of men [Bureau Justice Statistics — 1.4% of men vs 12.9% of women]
8. COURT BIAS: Men are sentenced 2.8 times longer than women for spousal murder [Bureau Justice Statistics — men at 17 years vs women at 6 years]
True but misleading. Gee, that couldn’t be because one woman out of four is victim of domestic violence, isn’t it?
9. JUSTICE SYSTEM BIAS: Women are assessed for Child Support on average at half the rate of men, yet are twice as likely to default on Child Support payments. Ninety Seven (97%) of all child support prosecutions are against fathers. [Census Bureau]
Grossly false. Men and women pay child support at close to the same rate.
10. DOMESTIC VIOLENCE: Numerous credible studies from independent researchers report that women are the initiators of domestic violence in 58% of all cases, and cause physical abuse in almost 50% of all cases, yet women only account for 6% of all criminal proceedings in such matters.
Made up. I could find no trace of any such “studies,” and they provide no citation whatsoever. They pulled it out of their ass (well, to be fair, they are assholes, so where else would it come from?).
11. CHILD VIOLENCE: Mothers commit 55% of all child murders and biological fathers commit 6%. NIS-3 indicates that Mother-only households are 3 times more fatal to children than Father-only households. Despite these compelling figures, children are systematically removed from the natural fathers who are their most effective protectors.
Grossly false. 97% of those convicted of violent crimes against children are male.
12. WEALTH: Women hold 65% of the total wealth in the USA [Fortune Magazine]
Grossly false. The real percentage is 51%.
Out of 12 points,
4 were correct (albeit 3 of those were misleading).
1 was irrelevant and misleading.
1 was slightly incorrect (and misleading).
4 were grossly false.
2 were made up.
A score of 33% (or 50% if you’re feeling very generous, or 8% if you think a list of supposed facts should not mislead its readers) is not a good score for a list that pretends to be factual.
The rest of his comment went beyond statistics and into pure MRA insanity, so I see no need to refute it. It’s just woman-hating bullshit. Here it is, if you’re curious:
1. Men pay more taxes than women at the same income level. Tax provisions are not gender neutral.
2. Men are provided no protection against sexual harassment at workplace and against rape and seduction.
3. Men do not have the choice of vocation. He is expected to subordinate his preferences to the needs of others in the family. That is because he is always the provider to others at the cost of his own personality. He has to just slog. He lives and dies for others. He is forced to don the mantle of the breadwinner for the whole family (including the extended family upon marriage) or else face a social death.
4. Men are not allowed the luxury of being the master of their own destiny.
5. Men are not accepted by the society the way they are – just normal human beings. He is reduced to the role of a robot – the eternal protector and provider with no desires of his own!
6. Men are not provided with a free and un-choked communication channel – a channel that listens to them without invalidating their feelings or ignoring or trivializing their problems.
7. No schemes are being furthered either by the Government or eminent social celebrities for boys the way they are happening for girls.
This has led to more boys dropping out of school resulting in in crease of juvenile delinquency. Shunned by the society, such boys grow up with gross inadequacy and ultimately turn criminals.8. There is no concept of MEN’s RIGHTS, only RESPONSIBILITIES and DUTIES enshrined for them!
9. 2007: 57593 married men committed suicide vis-à-vis 30064 married women in India.
10. If we look back, in the last 62 years of independent India not a single rupee has ever been allocated for men’s welfare from the Union Budget.
11. Not a single constitutional or quasi-constitutional body has ever been formed to identify redress problems peculiar to men.
12. There’s no a National Commission for Men nor Men’s Welfare Ministry.
13. The numerous Anti-male and gender biased laws which are not gender-neutral.
14. Anti-male slant and negative stereotyping indulged in by media, television and films against men.
15. Negligence of health issues of men like prostate cancer, short life expectancy, high suicide rates, cardiac problems, diabetes etc.
16. Not a Single Attempt has ever been made to Recognize that Men Too Have Problems
17. Not a Single scheme ever been envisaged for Men’s Welfare.
18. On the other hand men are always discriminated against in the guise of women empowerment.
19. Lack of government urge on the private sector to come up with Health Products specifically targeted to diseases affecting men in large numbers.
20. The World Economic Forum does not recognize men as human beings, because it doesn’t conduct a study and publish Gender Index of Men similar to that of women.
If you needed any more evidence that these faggots live in Never-Never Land…
The Prime Directive 
YOU ARE A MISANDRIST BITCH. STOP HATING ON MEN!
Hey, thank you for giving me my very first MRA insult! Woo!
BTW, you do know I’m a man, right? Just checking.
Interesting article, there is only one thing that somewhat bothers me, and it is this:
“Absolutely false. Women receive custody in 72% of cases, in the UK 71%. And that horrifies me: why are so many men still getting custody of children?? I hope one day we’ll get down to 4%!”
I don’t really see the point of this, why is it that you are so opposed to men getting custody? The only reason that springs to mind is that you are of the opinion that women are always more suited to get custody than men, but why? Or am I misunderstanding something here?
Now why would I want a potential rapist to own children, especially girl children?
so I guess you’re opposed to custody of your own (hypothetical) child then because you are a (potential) rapist? You do realize that nobody owns children in the Western world? What if a man gets custody of his son? Then is it “oh but he’ll rape my pweshus widdle gurl?”
“You do realize that nobody owns children in the Western world?”
Is that a serious question or…? Of course children are owned. They are owned by their parents.
Are you calling all men potential rapists? Do you have any sort of supporting evidence for your wildly sexist comments?
Yes, in the same way that all men are potential murderers or thieves. I don’t see where you get the “wildly sexist” accusation. It’s not sexist to point out that any man could be a rapist. It’s just a fact. In actual fact, most men do not rape, or murder, or steal.
I was raped by my female babysitter and so were many other people I grew up with. Your arguments are invalid and inept.
Argumentum ad rapium?
Francois,
Thank you for this post. I kiss you!! I recently had an encounter with an MRM individual. I did not participate in the “discussion” at all; rather just sat back in amazement because there is no point in trying to have a rational discussion with a completely irrational person, devoid of any reasoning or rhetorical skills. He flung around all of these “statistics” you listed and more. I walked away from the encounter not knowing (still not knowing) how to process it. Part of me wanted to laugh because some of the things he said were just downright laughable. Part of me is quite disturbed because he seemed volatile and dangerous. I had never heard of the MRM prior to this encounter. My question to you… and I don’t know if you’d have access to some stats to answer this or not but… just how widespread is this phenomenon? Is this really a “movement” or just handful of extremely off-balanced individuals? I mean, they apparently have a handbook too… I forget what it’s called.
Well, I’m not sure exactly how one would measure that, but they have many thriving forums and reddit/mensrights has 30,000 members.
30K eh? **shudder**
Yea, it’s actually a huge problem. I encounter these people in all sorts of circles.
I like your post. I found that ‘statistic’ of women holding 65% of all wealth on the web and this is the only thing I’ve found that addresses the validity of that. I am very disappointed that you fight this sexism with homophobia though. Yes, call them ‘faggots’ that will help, especially because these same people who will make up and spread incorrect statistics negative to women will also spread them about gay people.
But, anyway, thank you for going through this point by point because it’s helpful.
A note on the ‘war’ statistic, I was kind of under the impression, before your post, that it referred to deaths for troops or soldiers. So it could be sort of partially correct but doubly misleading. Wikipedia says that 47,424 US troops died in the war, so I’m assuming that’s where the number came from. Even if it is for the military, the Vietnam War was before women could serve in active duty in the military. If they couldn’t be soldiers, they couldn’t die as soldiers. A newer statistic is needed. Also your point about civilian casualties is also very valid.
“I am very disappointed that you fight this sexism with homophobia though. Yes, call them ‘faggots’ that will help, especially because these same people who will make up and spread incorrect statistics negative to women will also spread them about gay people.”
I use the term faggot to designate covert homosexuals whose self-hatred translates into attacks against all homosexuals (e.g. a lot of Republican politicians and religious figures become faggots, because they are unable to “out”). I’ve covered this here:
I believe there is a strong element of faggotry in MRA. I have discussed it here:
“A note on the ‘war’ statistic, I was kind of under the impression, before your post, that it referred to deaths for troops or soldiers.”
Then it needs to be specified. Since the original meme does not include that specification, I need to address what it actually says. Because people believe this shit.
“So it could be sort of partially correct but doubly misleading. Wikipedia says that 47,424 US troops died in the war, so I’m assuming that’s where the number came from. Even if it is for the military, the Vietnam War was before women could serve in active duty in the military. If they couldn’t be soldiers, they couldn’t die as soldiers. A newer statistic is needed.”
I have no idea what the ratio is, but they don’t either. That’s all that needs to be pointed out, in my opinion…
I’m glad you liked my entry. I hope it can be useful for others who might otherwise get hookwinded by these lies.
[…] UPDATE: This entry has now been linked by an MRA tumblr. If you came from there, hi faggots! I’ve written some stuff about you assholes! […]
[…] have already examined some MRA “statistics” that were actually rubbish; see this entry for the points that appeared there. For the sake of space, I will not repeat the same objections […]
” Of course children are owned. They are owned by their parents.”
Is that a joke?
No… although obviously one cannot kill or maim one’s children, they are still, properly speaking, property of their parents.
Men don’t deserve to have custody of their own children? This woman is an imbecile. How can she expect fair treatment if she doesn’t extend it to others?
“This woman” is a man. Hi!
So I’m supposed to believe that you’re a self hating man? Whether that’s true or not my argument still applies. When you don’t treat everyone equally you can’t expect equal treatment.
No, I don’t hate myself. LOL
Silly MRAs.
Self-hatred: an extreme dislike or hatred of oneself, or being angry at or even prejudiced against oneself. The term is also used to designate a dislike or hatred of a group, family, social class, mental illness, or stereotype to which one belongs and/or has. For instance, “ethnic self-hatred” is the extreme dislike of one’s ethnic group or cultural classification. It may be associated with aspects of autophobia.
Prejudice: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
FT Quote: ‘Now why would I want a potential rapist to own children, especially girl children?’
If you don’t treat men equally, that’s called prejudice. Since you’re a man, that called self-hatred. Do you really lack the intelligence to piece that together?
I’m not an MRA. Sorry I don’t fit into your little binary world. I’m a HRA as anyone with intelligence, maturity, & compassion would be.
I don’t want any little ignorant douche telling my daughter or son that they can’t do something. Nor do I want someone telling them there is something wrong with them because of the way they were born.
It’s funny how you only approve the comments you think you can argue against.
Nope, I don’t hate myself or am angry at myself at all.
“I don’t want any little ignorant douche telling my daughter or son that they can’t do something. Nor do I want someone telling them there is something wrong with them because of the way they were born.”
Then we agree. Good!
Wow that is some strong hate you spew! Let’s hope custody for men goes down to 4%? Fighting evil with evil will never do any good, you’re as much of a fool as the misogynists!
Not sure where you think the hatred comes in. There’s nothing abnormal in being worried about the fate of children left in men’s custody, given that almost all rape convictions (99%, according to the American DOJ) are against men.
So based on your line of reason we should all be held accountable for what someone in prison did? We’re not allowed to stand on our own merits? We should all be held accountable for the actions of those biologically similar to us? If you applied those same standards in every situation no one would be capable of doing anything. Yes men are convicted of rape more and yes I do believe that men do rape more often but don’t you realize that most rapes committed by females are unreported? That many women are actually pimping their daughters to these men? No one should be held responsible for someone else’s actions. We are all capable of extreme good and evil irregardless of gender.
Reading this cunts silly emotional drivel will do 2 things:
1.) Make you realize how “not all feminists are like that!” …. mostly are all like that as per the drivel above with copious amounts of hypocrisy and gynocentrism all back up by opinion and zero fact.
2.) Penis envy is a motherfucker.
Author is a truly inferior being kicking and screaming that the other sex gets any attention.
She can’t handle criticism and is constantly mounted atop a big nasty rag (its.all.mens.fault)
Get your head out of your over rated twat
Did you not notice my name is Francois? I am a man and I definitely have a penis, so not sure how “penis envy” comes into play. I also never claimed to be a feminist. As I’ve posted in the past, I don’t believe men can be feminists.
Also, you claim I put forward zero facts, but I put links to all the evidence I put forward. So… are you just unable to click hyperlinks? Or do you have some kind of mental retardation? From the way you write, it does seem like you’re fucking crazy and like to write “silly emotional drivel.” You whine like a fucking faggot, to be honest. Do you have a “male friend” putting bonbons in your mouth as you’re writing?
Thank you for proving once again that MRAs have nothing to reply to these points. The entry you link to is frankly pathetic. None of the arguments I raise are refuted on it, either, so what did you think you were accomplishing by posting it, you blithering imbecile?
Posting a link is blithering? I don’t think you know what that word means.
Not an MRA, just an egalitarian. I probably wouldn’t have posted if I had seen how old yours was, but I saw recent comments.
I still want my trophy!
Just an egalitarian! LOL
Tell me another good one…
[…] is the entry where I give my responses to the same […]
[…] my example of MRAs, who bring up laundry lists of reasons why they believe women rule over men (see 1 and 2); these lists are full of falsehoods, misrepresentations and […]
[…] have debunked MRA “evidence” in two entries (1, 2). This has infuriated some MRA groups because their ideology is mind-bogglingly stupid. […]
[…] to mainstream misogyny, as she uses some MRA myths here. In fact I have addressed two of these in this debunking of an MRA list. I honestly can’t believe that she’d pull the old “far more likely to be murdered […]