Feminism is about equality??

Most people in the United States think of feminism or the most commonly used term “women’s lib” as a movement that aims to make women the social equals of men. This broad definition, popularized by the media and mainstream segments of the movement, raises problematic questions. Since men are not equals in white supremacist, capitalist, patriarchal class structure, which men do women want to be equal to? Do women share a common vision of what equality means? Implicit in this simplistic definition of women’s liberation is a dismissal of race and class as factors that, in conjunction with sexism, determine the extent to which an individual will be discriminated against, exploited, or oppressed.
bell hooks, Feminist Theory: From Margin to Center

14 thoughts on “Feminism is about equality??

  1. lamentoid April 15, 2014 at 20:53 Reply

    Feminism is concerned with male violence, something you have no problem happily reproducing by calling other men “bitches” and “faggots” a few posts ago, along with “virgins” i.e. channeling and perpetuating the demand of gender that men define the worth of other men and themselves by the amount of women they’ve suck their members in. You’re not committed. Maybe be quiet and keep listening women for a bit?

    • Francois Tremblay April 15, 2014 at 21:06 Reply

      I’m sorry, but first of all, I don’t know who you are. So why should I listen to you? I don’t even know if you’re a woman or not, let alone a radfem!

      Secondly, you must be brain-addled if you think *I* am the one reproducing male violence. I’m not the one going around saying women deserve to be raped and that women are taking away men’s rights, MRAs are. The comment you refer to was to MRAs, and I think it was a justified comment. Obviously I was not encouraging MRAs to have sex with women. I am shaming them.

      As for me not being committed, I don’t know how you can deduce that from one comment. I guess you must be a psychic? As for being quiet, I would say it’s a good point but again the one example you bring up was addressed to other men. As an ally, debunking other men’s anti-feminist bullshit is the one occasion where I should NEVER be quiet. And that is my primary objective on this blog. So why are you telling me to be quiet except if you have some stake in anti-feminism?

      • lamentoid April 15, 2014 at 22:07 Reply

        Yes, you are “shaming” them as “virgins”, i.e. not being “man” enough to have stuck their penises in a woman thusfar. What does it matter who I am, besides that I’m a fellow male? I told you to consider being quiet because it seems you can’t respond to other men’s misogyny without slurring women and gay people yourself. If you had just debunked their lies I wouldn’t have said anything — I have no problem with that. I’m gender abolitionist and therefore anti-masculinity, and I think men spewing masculinity in feminism, especially radical feminism, doesn’t seem to be what women want. I could be wrong, maybe some feminists want men to spend their time calling each other names on the internet.

        “But plenty of feminists get angry!” But your anger on the other hand is based in masculinity. Feminist anger comes from a place that you lack. Our place “as an ally” (please) is to support women with what resource we can (for example our time debunking MRAs on our blogs), without injecting masculinity (slurs and other violent language) into it. Have you read the SCUM Manifesto? Or even Meghan Murphy’s “The trouble with male allies” post?

        • Francois Tremblay April 15, 2014 at 22:14 Reply

          “Yes, you are “shaming” them as “virgins”, i.e. not being “man” enough to have stuck their penises in a woman thusfar.”

          No, I am shaming them as people who are so woman-hating that there’s no way they can have a loving relationship with any woman. Which is an observable fact. Nothing to do with encouraging men to have sex with women. I am openly sex-negative.

          “What does it matter who I am, besides that I’m a fellow male?”

          Then you have zero credibility regarding telling me to shut up and listen to you or not. Men cannot be feminists, as I’ve already argued. I have no more reason to listen to you than any radfem has any reason to listen to me.

          “I told you to consider being quiet because it seems you can’t respond to other men’s misogyny without slurring women and gay people yourself.”

          I have not slurred women or gay people. I have already discussed my use of the word “faggot,” and it has nothing to do with gay people.

          “I’m gender abolitionist and therefore anti-masculinity”

          Cool, me too! Too bad you’re an asshole.

          ““But plenty of feminists get angry!” But your anger on the other hand is based in masculinity.”

          When the fuck did I say ‘but plenty of feminists get angry!’ to justify my position? That’s a straw man. And frankly I think you’re just trying to piss me off. Ridiculous waste of time.

          “Have you read the SCUM Manifesto? Or even Meghan Murphy’s “The trouble with male allies” post?”

          Yes… I have read both those things. So what? I don’t care how credible I am in your eyes. Why don’t you just leave this blog and spare me this self-righteous “waaah waaah you’re a terrible ally” bullshit? Just because I called MRAs hysterical virgins, which is a statement of fact and has nothing to do with inciting MRAs to have sex with women?

          • lamentoid April 15, 2014 at 22:21 Reply

            I know you’re openly sex-negative. You’ve got all the credentials, yes. You’re still acting like a Man(child). It’s repellent.

            “Bitch” is a slur, sorry you’re getting called out for using it. And you’ve now explicitly admitted that you’re insular to being called out by fellow men concerned with your behavior. That’s also pretty repellent.

            The quote was to save time in case you were to present the argument that “feminists display anger, so I should be able to as well” — I was not accusing you of actually presenting that argument.

          • lamentoid April 15, 2014 at 22:28 Reply

            Also, I said “be quiet” and “listen to women” (slight typo in OP), not me; as in, listening to women helped me understand that repellent masculinity has no place in solidarity with radical feminists, and so maybe you need to find an understanding of that as well, before continuing to use misogynistic slurs and such and tagging that “Radical feminism” like your slurs belong in that sphere, which is one of healing, for people who aren’t you.

        • Francois Tremblay April 15, 2014 at 22:30 Reply

          “You’re still acting like a Man(child).”

          Yea, how dare I be angry at MRAs. How childish of me to care about something. Ye gods! I guess I need to start being more coldly logical, because science.

          ““Bitch” is a slur, sorry you’re getting called out for using it.”

          What are you talking about? No one has “called me out” for using it. UNTIL YOU. What do you think that tells us? (hint: you’re probably the problem)

          “And you’ve now explicitly admitted that you’re insular to being called out by fellow men concerned with your behavior. That’s also pretty repellent.”

          Oh boo hoo, are your manly feels hurt that I won’t automatically give you credibility for being a man? Go cry me a river, dudebro.

          “The quote was to save time in case you were to present the argument that “feminists display anger, so I should be able to as well” — I was not accusing you of actually presenting that argument.”

          How fucking asinine. Leave this blog and stop wasting my time.

        • Francois Tremblay April 15, 2014 at 22:31 Reply

          “Also, I said “be quiet” and “listen to women” (slight typo in OP), not me”

          Kay cool, I’ll keep doing that. Not that I needed you to tell me to do so, dudebro. And I wasn’t listening to you anyway, so I guess nothing has changed at all.

          Again, thanks for wasting my time, asshole. Next comment from you is a ban.

  2. lamentoid April 15, 2014 at 22:40 Reply

    A little genuine and hopefully-constructive criticism gets Francois enraged and clutching the banhammer and using “dudebro” pejoratively to elevate himself above said criticism. Nice; what’s next, deleting my comments to keep unmarred his #RadFem Ally(tm) cred? I called you out for using the slur “bitch,” among other things, and you’re doing exactly the opposite of what you’re supposed to. Being banned would be gratifying.

    • Francois Tremblay April 15, 2014 at 22:44 Reply

      Aaaand you’re out. Be gratified, you insufferable prick.

      “A little genuine and hopefully-constructive criticism”

      Ridiculous. There was nothing genuine or constructive in getting butthurt about a few slurs. Your whole objective here was to waste my time. What I was “supposed to do” was stop feeding you, which I have done.

      Radfem Ally cred? ROTFL. What world do you live in? There is no such thing as Radfem Ally cred. You obviously live in another world, so please stay there so I don’t have to listen to any more of you being a whiny bitch about how I should be nice to woman-haters and such.

  3. sbt42 April 27, 2014 at 05:23 Reply

    I feel kinda like I’m butting in here, but I wanted to pass along a link to a Jon Stewart/Daily Show segment where he points out the obvious different treatment of women in politics. Specifically, women are lambasted when exhibiting emotion and are being told they’re way too emotional for the ‘job,’ while when men are all watery-eyed they are “passionate about America” and “a man’s man.”

    http://www.upworthy.com/jon-stewart-proves-a-double-standard-for-women-politicians-with-the-most-hilarious-evidence-possible-rn2-6d?c=upw1

    Long time no see, Francois. I hope to be back more often and catch up with your recent posts. :)

  4. sbt42 April 28, 2014 at 11:14 Reply

    Just a reader and occasional commenter. No big deal. I thoroughly enjoy your work and your various topics from over the years. :)

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